Morning Banter And Conference Story

Karman 0:30

Good morning, Tammy and Scott. Morning, Karman. How are you?

Scott 0:34

What's going on, Karman?

Karman 0:36

Yeah. Am I going to step on Scott here? No, he's just going to like wait until I start to talk. Listeners, if you could see him laughing, like he so totally did that on purpose.

Speaker 1 0:48

Like I'm going to screw with you first thing, first thing in the morning. Well, we're not even awake yet. Yes.

Karman 0:55

I mean, Scott's getting off to have a good day. How does he know it's going to be a good day if he gets to mess with somebody, you know, before breakfast?

Scott 1:05

Yes. We were at a conference this week, and I think one of our staff members has almost figured out, like almost figured out my sense of humor.

Speaker 1 1:19

It's only been three and a half years.

Scott 1:22

Yes. She looked at me and she said, You just call everyone out, don't you? I said, I don't. I'm just I'm just playful. There was someone walking, taking pictures. She was a vendor and she was taking pictures of other people's booths, but mostly when they weren't looking. So as she walked by our booth, I said, Hey, you have to be way sneakier than that because I think they saw you.

Speaker 1 1:45

Didn't she laugh? Or were she in video streaming?

Scott 1:48

Yeah, she laughed and kind of put her head down. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 1:52

She's taking back pictures to say this is what our booth should look like.

Scott 1:55

Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's what it's what all of us vendors do. We go and judge other booths.

Speaker 1 2:02

And we learn. I'm going to use a different word. We look at and we evaluate and say what's working and what's not working and what are we going to do differently.

Scott 2:10

It's like the adult version of a science fair.

Karman 2:15

Well, you guys have perfectly introduced our topic for this morning. Excellent.

Scott 2:20

We do what we can.

Karman 2:21

We do it. Yeah. Uh, you know, it's back to school

Why Being Bad Feels So Hard

Karman 2:25

time, right?

Scott 2:25

So I'm Yeah, those little shits are getting out.

Karman 2:29

Uh what's the in the Christmas song? And mom and dad could hardly wait for school to start again. Yes, you know, it's it's also true in August.

Speaker 1 2:39

Yeah. Very true. Yes.

Karman 2:41

Well, at back to school time and and learning, one of the things that we've been talking about lately is how uncomfortable it is when you're not good at something. And giving yourself room to be bad at something for a while. And go ahead, Scott.

Scott 3:08

No, I'm I'm confused by this concept. I don't really have this problem.

Karman 3:14

Well, this is gonna be the shortest podcast ever because that is my question, Tammy and Scott, for each of you. Like, what's something that you were bad at at some point and had to get comfortable with the idea? Like, I'm not as good at this as I want to be or or thought I was. And um, you know, and it took a while to get where you wanted to be.

Speaker 1 3:41

Oh Scott, you just you totally just stepped into that.

Scott 3:46

I didn't take into that. I didn't step into anything.

Speaker 1 3:49

So is there anything, young man, that you have to had to struggle with?

Scott 3:54

Uh no.

Karman 3:56

Liar, liar, pants on fire. Being modest would be Scott's answer. Oh, bad at it.

Scott 4:06

No, so what so what's what for me what's interesting is are there things that I'm not good at? Yes. Right? And we can sit and talk golf and we can talk like lots of uh things like that. We if we talk kind of business world, yeah, a lot. Like you think of oh, learning to not be an asshole. That was the one I was thinking, actually. Yeah, and but for what and I'm being playful, of course, and and sitting here like, oh, did I really struggle with that? Yes. And I I generally don't get overwhelmed by that struggle, me personally.

Karman 4:48

Not being good at something and right.

Scott 4:50

So if it's like I'm not good at it, it's like uh to me, that's a problem I then want to solve. And it's for me, it's a decision first. Like, do I care? And do I care enough to do something about it? And sometimes it's yes and sometimes it's no. Like I joke with Tammy about golf. I'm not good at golf. I have no desire to be good at golf. Like, that's not a problem I want to solve, and I really don't give a shit. Okay. Now, oh wait, there's a couple clients we're working with that I have not frankly cracked the nut on how to support them to move forward. Yeah, they're moving forward like inch by inch. And mile by mile. And sometimes millimeter by millimeter. Exactly. Okay. And that is for me, that's frustrating. Like, I haven't figured out like what's what's the lever to pull. Um, and so it's like, okay, but that doesn't like put me on my heels. I look at that as a challenge to say, all right, how do I solve that? So I like to me, this is a great question because um this sounds super gestical. I don't know why. I just I've always seemed to pick things up rather quickly.

Karman 5:58

It's never really it's one of the things we hate about you, Scott.

Speaker 1 6:01

I know it is one of the things we hate, but there's something in here, and it's it's it's actually a mindset, I think. And it's not um it's not a mindset that I learned early in my career, it is a mindset that I learned later in my career, right? And it is this piece around am I supposed to be good at everything right away? Am I supposed to be perfect? Am I supposed to have that skill set down? And I do think that

Letting Go Of Perfection Masks

Speaker 1 6:34

there are a lot of people who, me included, especially early in my career, where I thought I was supposed to have it all together. Like it would be embarrassing if I didn't have it all together. And in fact, if I didn't have it all together, I should hide it and then go try to figure out how to get up to speed so no one would know that I don't have it all together. And unfortunately, for many of us, me included, I spent years and years and years and years trying to prove that I could do that. I had that figured out, I knew what I was doing, I had the answer. Like, there it is. Tammy is all that in a bag of chips. And I had to go through a lot of mistakes and getting kicked in the head and getting caught because you know, I I hid those things that I didn't do well, right? And I didn't want to admit that I did that. So then I became defensive. That's the other thing. I either hide it, but then when you get caught, you get defensive and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but but you had all these excuses. And so I had, yes, Karman, I've had a lot of things that I was uncomfortable with. And somewhere in my 40s, and maybe this is slow, I don't know. I think it was probably slow. Somewhere in my 40s, I started to recognize that I couldn't have it all figured out, that I wasn't done yet, that I had places and spaces to grow. And as soon as I admitted that I sucked at something, okay, in that space, all of a sudden that pain and that embarrassment and that like gosh, and struggle with that, it all went away because I gave myself permission to not be good. One, and that it that wasn't a reflection on who I was as a human being.

Karman 8:19

It was just for your value as a human being.

Speaker 1 8:22

Yeah. I mean, it just was right in that spot. And then second, Scott's question is this something I needed to become good at? And there are some places and spaces that I still am struggling to become good. You know, I'm still growing in those spaces, and I'm frustrated because I'm not there yet. Okay, but I'm not frustrated at myself that I haven't arrived. I mean, I I recognize that there's a journey, and that journey comes with, oh, I want to be. Okay, I'm trying in this spot. Darn, I thought I had that figured out. No, I don't, and I'm still working. So I get frustrated that I'm not where I want to be, but I'm not mad or upset with myself, and I'm not thinking something's wrong with me. And I think that's what Scott's talking about. It's like when he recognizes that he sucks at something, he decides, is it something he's gonna care about? And if he is, then he goes after it. And so he doesn't have that embarrassment. He's like, oh, it's just a journey. And I think that's the thing.

Scott 9:26

And if it's important for me, I what I've learned about myself, what it's important. If if it's important, I get more frustrated at myself that I didn't recognize before, recognize it before that moment.

Speaker 1 9:39

The frustration of like, how could I have been so stupid to not see it years ago versus I'm not good at it yet, right? Which is a whole another thing in that space.

Scott 9:47

And so I know I've I've had places in where people have interpreted like I'm mad at them when I'm really it has nothing to do with them. I'm frustrated that I didn't recognize it.

Speaker 1 9:58

Yeah, Karman, you know, this conversation and kind of even where the question comes from, we have added a lot of new staff in the last 12 months. And this has been their message to us. I was the expert where I came from.

Scott 10:15

I was the superstar.

Speaker 1 10:17

I was and I was talking to a school teacher just yesterday, and one of the things she actually was a middle school school teacher for uh gifted and talented, and so what happened is you had all these kids who were in grade school who were like the best of the best, right? In their grade. And then they came into middle school from all of these grade schools, so now we're gonna funnel them, and now we take the best of the best and we put them in a room with other best of the best. So now they're with their peers, right? In that spot. And she said, and watching them be frustrated in middle school with the fact that they were no longer, you know, the standout, they were no longer like so far above others that they're standing with their peers. It really started to make me think about this very thing. Like, here we have all of these individuals who are joining our team. They are rock stars. There's just no question. But they haven't been surrounded by rock stars, and now they are, and it's starting to recognize like that hierarchy where you started to say, Oh, look, I'm the best and the brightest. I can stand above others and start to realize that wait a minute, I am just one of many bright stars. And I think part of this thing is that spot that says, Hey, get over yourself, right? You are one of many, and you're not done yet. And in this spot, quit trying to be so polished and so perfect and like I am that bright shining star and recognize you're a human being. And as a human being, when you stand with your peers, yeah, you're gonna be really good at some stuff, you're gonna be okay at some stuff, and you're gonna suck at some other stuff. It doesn't make you a bad human being, it makes you human, and you still have

When Rock Stars Join Rock Stars

Speaker 1 12:05

the chance to become more. Where are you gonna continue to grow? Because no matter what the thing is we're talking about, there's the opportunity to level up. And that's really honestly what we're all about. And did we have to learn the hard way, Scott?

Scott 12:19

Some Yeah, and and I I like your your comment before about like, oh, I'm I'm supposed to have it, so you put on a facade. I think that's the other thing I watch people do, is like, oh, and I have been given advice by bosses, but well, you fake it till you make it. No, you fake it till you become it. No fucking stupid worst advice ever. So what do you do? I I mean to me, it's a little a bit of what we said, okay, I need to recognize it. Number one, oh, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not where I would need to be or wanna be or wanna be. Okay. Do I want to be at a higher level? That that is a key decision. And okay, yes, I want to be at a different level. Now, what are you gonna do about it? Okay, and I think the fake it till you may, like, I I really think the underlying message is like, hey, practice it, get at it, like, but to me, don't hide the fact. Who, like, who can you then watch, observe from, learn from to get to that that point? Who right, who can be your coach, who can be your your mentor, your teacher? Well, even if that's for a day, a 15 minutes, a week, a year, like whatever that is. If you find someone, and to me, if you have strong relationships that work where you trust each other, I should be able to say, you know, I'm not very good at this, and I'm struggling with this right now. Where I think to me, the bigger risk is we hide it and we think we're good at it, and then we wonder why, oh, we're not getting the results we would like to, or because we're like, oh, you're not supposed to show your weakness. All of that is just ridiculous stupidity of advice.

Speaker 1 13:58

Yes, yesterday, Scott, you and I in different states. Okay. Yeah, I was in the state of denial. I was in the state of Missouri. Where Missouri.

Scott 14:13

Oh, oh, Missouri. Sorry, I got confused when you said Missouri.

Speaker 1 14:17

Like, is there a 51st state? Or was it Missouri, like like misery in that spot? Oh, it could be that too. Yeah. But um, we actually gave the same, we actually gave a speech yesterday, a keynote yesterday, on exactly the same topic, and it was on the book Think. And one of the things in Think that we talk about, a tactic, is really about this spot of asking the growth questions. What's working, what's not working, how do I get better? And number one of the pieces that I actually asked the folks in the audience and had them talk about is this is like I explained that this is what we do at our organization. And I watched them, they groaned. They're like, What? That people have to meant out loud that they screw things up. I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, so why don't you talk to one another? Why would we do that? I mean, are we really like mean and nasty human beings and we're trying to like make them be embarrassed in public?

Karman 15:09

Or is there Scott is, but Scott?

Speaker 1 15:12

That's that's why we started it. It was entertaining for Scott, right? In that space. But like, what is the underlining, like, what is beneficial, okay, in that moment? And again, for me, you know, the group did a really good job yesterday in terms of coming up with that. And the last group was like, hey, it makes failing, not being perfect, like a normal thing.

Ditching Fake It And Growing On Purpose

Speaker 1 15:35

And when you actually like it's normal to not always have to have it be perfect, that is the beginning of the opportunity for growth. And I think so many times, one of the reasons we struggle, Karman, right? I don't like this spot, I don't want this. It's because we are putting on that veneer and we're trying to show people something that truly is not real. It's the best of us, you know. I only want to show you the bright, shiny part of me, instead of really understanding that, you know, as whole people, we're not all bright and shiny in that space. And I think one of the things to recognize is hey, when I can get through that struggle, that's good for me. And if I happen to be having that struggle because I actually upped my game, I was a frontline employee and I got promoted, and now I'm hanging out with folks who have a different role and a different responsibility. I'm gonna struggle. I don't know how to do that. And I'm with some other folks who have a different perspective. Some of them are there earlier than I am. Oh my gosh, I now have a different peer set. And then you get promoted from supervisor to manager, manager to director, director to vice president, vice president, right to C-suite. Every single time we are actually saying we need more from you. Okay. And that's the opportunity to grow. And every time you get put in that spot, you need more. Yep, you're gonna struggle. And if you don't struggle, you're not gonna be successful. So the struggle, the thing I'm uncomfortable with, I don't want to go through that. Gosh, I'm feeling like a loser, is actually that moment when you are growing. And that uncomfortableness is the place that if you don't have it, you're not becoming more right. You're just trying to pretend in that spot. And pretending will catch up with you, right? It's just a matter of time. So instead of pretending, how about going, yeah, I'm uncomfortable, I don't like it? Fine, say those things and then grow anyway.