Turning Pop Culture Into Better Leadership

What if the best leadership coaching you get this week comes from a movie night? We start with a deceptively simple question: what’s your favorite work-adjacent movie, and why does it feel true to real life at work? From there we connect scenes, characters, and team dynamics to the problems leaders deal with every day: pressure, performance, trust, and what to do when someone needs a push to see their own potential. 

We dig into Hoosiers and A League Of Their Own to talk about coaching, role clarity, and the underrated skill of building a strong team with the people you actually have. That leads to a blunt truth about management and workplace culture: everyone is imperfect, including the leader, so the job is to maximize strengths, reduce friction, and keep moving toward the goal without pretending people are easy. 

Then we jump to work-related TV shows, from Ted Lasso as a leadership primer to The Office as a painfully familiar workplace mirror. We even wrestle with the idea that “mind games” exist in business, while also naming the line you don’t cross: “killing people is not a good business plan.” The episode closes with practical reflective questions, a reminder to pivot when things get stuck, and a story about teaching emotional intelligence without fancy jargon. 

If you’ve ever learned more from a character than a training deck, you’ll feel seen. Subscribe for more, share this with a coworker who loves pop culture, and leave a review with the movie or show that taught you the most about leadership.

Transcript

Cold Open Movie Banter

Tammy 0:00

Good morning, Scott and Tammy. Good morning, Karman.

Scott 0:07

Hello, Karman.

Karman 0:12

Scott's just always gonna bring the opposite, right?

Scott 0:16

Yes. Good mor good morning, Clarice.

Karman 0:19

Clarice. Oh, oh. Have you have you not had your breakfast?

Scott 0:24

Oh no, I would really like some lamb. I'm having a friend. I'm having a friend for dinner.

Tammy 0:30

Oh, folks who do not know all those references. That is a that is a tough movie.

Scott 0:40

It's a great movie.

Tammy 0:42

It's a mind game movie.

Scott 0:44

It is.

unknown 0:46

Okay.

Karman 0:49

We're gonna hit it right now from the topic I had in mind. And I want to hear from each of you what is your favorite work adjacent movie? Now, can you turn Silence of the Lambs into a work-related movie? A hundred thousand percent. So, however, you want to interpret a work-adjacent movie, what's your favorite one and why? I mean, mine might be Working Girl with Melanie Griffith and Harrison Ford

Picking A Work Adjacent Movie

Karman 1:20

just because Melanie Griffith and Harrison Ford.

Tammy 1:25

So I mine is I I'm gonna guess like 85% of the people who listen to this have never even seen this one. Okay, because it's old. All right. Gene Hackman and Hoosiers, right? And there is a great, great, great scene in this where Gene Hackman is talking to his his assistant coach, and he's taking his head and he's sticking it in a in a bucket of water or a sink of water because he's drunker than a skunk. And he's like, you know, you gotta sober up, you know, because we need you, and that like all that kind of stuff. And this this assistant coach is like, but coach, you don't understand. I mean, you can't like I can't do this stuff, and you

Hoosiers And Tough Love Coaching

Tammy 2:05

I I I'll get sober, but you you have to be with me. And Hackman makes him a promise that I'll never leave him, like he'll always be there and never leave him alone. And then Hackman purposefully later on in the movie, purposefully like gets kicked out of the game and leaves this coach, this assistant coach alone, who like is freaking out because he doesn't think he can do it. And the fact of the matter is, is he can. And Hackman had to kick him out of his safety zone in order to show him that he was brilliant and capable. And I love that message. And Hoosier's does such a great job of recognizing and showing that sometimes as a leader, you have to actually sometimes not always tell the truth, sometimes do some things to help someone else reach their potential. Love that, love that concept in that movie. Scott's smirking at me.

Scott 2:57

No, no, it's it's great, it's great. I farman said movie, and I'm like, every one that I'm thinking is like a TV show. And so I'm like, well, that doesn't that doesn't fit. Oh shit, that doesn't fit. Oh shit, that doesn't fit.

Karman 3:10

We'll do that second. We'll go back to TV show.

Scott 3:12

Oh, it's okay. No, it's it's okay. I'm like, oh, so you know, I've I thought so I I thought about this, Tammy. As you were talking, I thought about this, and it's funny that we both have a sports movie.

Tammy 3:24

Jocker, the two jocks.

Scott 3:28

So my mine is uh like when I really thought about it, it it is a league of their own. Oh wow. Okay, and how come? Okay, so right, you have Tom Hanks coming in. So what kind of struck me first was there's no crying in baseball, right? Right. So when you think about business, there's no crying in business. Now there is, right? But like, hey, as a leader, there are times where I have to like I have to get put it

A League Of Their Own Teams

Scott 3:58

together, and I have to get the team to put it together to accomplish whatever we need to accomplish. And then you think about what you know, that whole movie is about how did he take this group of players, female players, and made them into a team, something like hey, people wanted to see, and it was something that took their mind off what was going on overseas, and they got to watch baseball and etc. etc. And right took this group of people and he didn't go out and buy the best, or did like he said, Hey, this is what I got. What can I do with what I got? Now, did he remove play? Did he remove people that didn't quite align? Yeah, in some cases. Did he take some people in that you were like, What in the hell is he doing? Yeah, like did he have his own issues of yeah? So it's just it was interesting when it's like, hey, our goal is over there, how do we get to that goal?

Tammy 4:59

Our goal is over there, how do we get to that goal? And how do we take what we have and maximize the the the gifts and the skills and minimize the stuff that isn't so great about all of us, and at the end, actually achieve. And you know, that piece sometimes I know we talk with leaders who are like, we have to have like this person just drive me crazy, and whatever that is, and it's like I think sometimes we think employees are supposed to be perfect when we are all so imperfect in that space, and we forget that as leaders we are also imperfect, right? So we shouldn't be judging others in that space, yeah. So, how do you take what that is and just make the best of that? I mean, that's such a cool thing, and uh and Tom Hanks and his team did that with one another, yes.

Scott 5:56

Well, and most of them figured out their role. There's things thinking, uh, once or Fit Gina, whatever her last name is, um right, she she became a little bit of a showboat at different times, recognizing, like, oh, if I do this, that is going to do that for the team, right? And so it's like, hey, I don't really want to do that, right? Her character was like, I don't really, and that's what I I need to play this role in that moment.

Tammy 6:28

It can add value in this space, in this place, right? Finding ways that when we if I do this, that adds value, that allows somebody to do that. Even the positions that they end up playing ended up being ways that we actually made the most of what we had, not necessarily the most of one person, right? It's a really interesting, you know. I would not, Scott, I would not have brought that movie to mind, right? But actually, it's an interesting. If you like just sit down and walk through what happens in the movie, it might be worth even going on watching it again and then saying, what are the learning lessons from a team's standpoint and from a leadership standpoint, and about using the resources that you have standpoint? Yeah, yeah. That's uh I love that. Karman, this was a kind of a fun, never no one's ever asked me that question before.

Karman 7:19

So, how about TV show? Favorite work-related TV show?

Tammy 7:25

Okay, mine's easy and it's so obvious. Ted Lasso. Sorry. I mean, I I can't, I just can't help myself, but it is so flipping obvious in that space. I mean, if you haven't watched that, it is like it is a primer in terms of of leadership. It's a it's a leadership primer, Ted Lasso.

Work TV Shows And Leadership Styles

Karman 7:50

Yeah, if if you were gonna if you were gonna guess Ted Lasso's predictive index profile, what would you what would you guess?

Tammy 8:00

Oh well, there's Ted Lasso. There's a perfect profile to be the perfect leader, not yeah, no, but there's Ted Lasso that is the person that Ted Lasso let people see. And then there's Ted Lasso behind the person that he let people see. So you have to go to the real human. He modified controller. He's not um so but he modified and he modified purposefully to get the outcomes that he wanted. I mean, that that jokey, you know, you know, guy next door, you know, kind of guy, he was a heck of a lot more wily and smarter than that piece. You just had to recognize that he purposefully was folksy, right? Yeah in that spot. So no, he wasn't a controller, he might have been a strategist. Yeah, what do you think, Scott?

Scott 9:02

I mean, I would I mean, I could see strategist, I could see collaborator being real like, hey, I really want people, like I'm gonna put others up on a pedestal.

Tammy 9:16

Yep. So tourists do that too. Yeah, interesting. Okay, all right, Karman.

Scott 9:23

Oh, my uh what's your TV show? Oh, mine is Dexter, without a doubt. Dexter, Dexter, there's always shit happening underneath that you don't know. You have to rid the bad people because sometimes the rules just don't make it happen. So you gotta break the rules to make it happen. I mean, it is so fitting.

Tammy 9:46

Wow. Okay, I can't, I I'm like, I can't even get my arms are my arms around that. I just it's it's beyond my ken.

Scott 9:58

I'm like, woo! Poof. I mean, the other one, so the other one I might say is the mentalist.

Tammy 10:06

Which is just as bad.

Scott 10:08

Well, not quite as bad.

Tammy 10:10

Well, that was a whole mind game for the whole thing, is a mind game.

Scott 10:16

And you're well, hold on a second, and business isn't wow.

Tammy 10:21

So it's so hard to be a business partner with you sometimes.

Scott 10:27

I know it's really tough to be around someone who's right a lot. I I feel for you.

Tammy 10:35

His head is just taking up the entire screen right now, it's just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. This is careful, it might pop. Bam. Okay, I'm just I'm gonna breathe for a while and then we'll we'll let we'll let our listeners send in their comments about this one and we'll we'll see what folks have to say. Scott's saying, I watch shows where it's a hundred percent mind game or we kill people, right? And that's like that's our learning lessons for business.

Karman 11:04

So it's and is it any wonder that the interns are racing to leave?

Scott 11:14

I mean, it's okay.

Tammy 11:16

So one of our staff members has a uh a senior in high school that's graduating, and their high school is having this thing called senior. What was it?

Scott 11:28

It's it's the assassination game.

Tammy 11:30

Yeah, the senior assassination game.

Scott 11:33

Which is of course, there's now there's all of these videos out of police officers warning students and the community because so many squirt

The Senior Assassination Game

Scott 11:45

guns look real, and there are people are calling, like, hey, there's someone walking around with a gun, and police are coming.

Tammy 11:54

It's so sad that in our society that we actually can't like do this because it's kind of the game is kind of cute.

Scott 12:01

Well, yeah, the game is is is hilarious to me.

Tammy 12:05

Yeah, the seniors are actually like if you sign up, you're you're trying to assassinate your fellow seniors, and there's rules around with a water gun. With a water gun, with a squirt gun. Let's make sure that we understand with a squirt gun. And the rules around this is you get assigned the person that you're supposed to assassinate this week. Okay. And they, if they have certain types of clothing on, which is called safe clothing, then they can't be as they can't be assassinated if they're wearing that. Okay. And then there are certain times when you can't, like in this spot, and certain times that you can. And then there's a free-for-all day. And so there's all this stuff, and it started with like in AIMS, 500 kids, right? And then it, you know, or a hundred kids, a hundred kids, and then it's it's like whittling down every week and every week after week. And if you get killed, you're out of the game, obviously. And if you don't actually get your target, you're out of the game in that particular spot. So I mean, I'm laughing because this is actually kind of fun and playful, and the kids are having a great time with this. And then, you know, Scott and Dexter, those those things go together.

Scott 13:21

I I mean, you know, there is uh there's a movie that was out in the late 80s or early 90s that was college students doing this with like paintball. And I don't remember, I can't remember the movie, but it ends up that the the kid who won ends up kind of like hooking up with a Russian spy or something, and it like gets very serious where it yeah, their career exactly. Yes.

Tammy 13:49

All right, Karman. Scott did his his little dark and crazy. Mine was really obvious, Ted Lasso. What's yours?

Karman 13:58

I do I think that you know the classic has to be nine to five. And there's some fun things about that, obviously, and it I think is of its time in terms of women in the workforce, and the challenges that women had in the workforce are different now, maybe subtler, but that just the way these three, you know, you're making friends with people that you'd never thought you'd be friends with. You're building a team, you're, you know, making uh life better for for each other and for your work community, and figuring out how to work in the system or around the system and take your power.

Tammy 14:48

So, but that's a movie, right, Karman? Yeah. All right, so we were on TV shows. Oh, okay.

Scott 14:56

We she'll take that from giving us the movie, she hadn't given us her movie yet, so she's okay.

Karman 15:02

How can and then how can you not choose the office?

Tammy 15:07

Oh what's funny is there's so many of that, those like episodes that were real. I mean, they kind of did happen, right?

Scott 15:15

Yeah, for sure.

Tammy 15:18

Scott's calling who he wants to be.

Scott 15:20

Yeah, I I well actually I just want to be Jim and I want to know who is Dwight so I can crank them. Jen. Jen. Okay, done.

Tammy 15:32

There's your answer.

Scott 15:34

It starts today.

Tammy 15:36

Oh, poor Jen. Poor Jen. All right.

Karman 15:40

What's the what's the takeaway for real life and movies? I well now.

Scott 15:46

I mean to me, I I always think of this is like when I think of the takeaway, it's what we put in think. So there is, you know, one of the chapters to think deeper is read. And it really isn't about what are you reading or what are you watching, but if you take time to think, reflect, you can draw connections,

Reflection Pivot And People Skills

Scott 16:10

right? We we spent a whole section of time drawing connections to a league of their own. We drew connections to dexter. We drew can like to me, there are connections in lots of things we do if you take the time to think and reflect. And then in my mind, it's always coming back to what's working, what's not working, what am I going to do differently? So, yes, killing people is not a good business plan. Right? And so I might start one way, and because I drew a connection, and we find out that that connection isn't quite right, and you need to adjust that. So to me, I think you can draw those connections in obscure places. And if you're using the growth questions, you're just going to refine over the course of time.

Karman 17:02

There's a there's a scene in one of the friends episodes where the guys are trying to carry a big sofa up the stairs, and you know it's kind of stuck, and they're trying to go around a corner, and Ross keeps screaming, pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot. So as in work, as in friends, be ready to pivot.

Tammy 17:30

Well, the piece, and it's funny, Scott, because you know, Karman, when you asked that question, I went exactly to the same place. We can learn by living the experience, okay? Or we can learn by observing those experiences in others, and we can see that in our friends, our families, our neighbors, all that kind of stuff. But books and movies and television shows also give us all of this really great source data for us to be able to, you know, reflect on and think about and learn from. And one of the pieces, Scott, years and years and years and years ago, you had an employee and you kept talking with him about emotional intelligence. And he just he he was like, I have no idea what this what this person is talking about. And so finally you were like, Tammy, go in and talk to this guy. See if you can't get him to understand, right? And you know, I walked in the door and sat down and just simply said, Hey, like if your friends were to like describe you, what would they say? And he was well, they call me a butthead, right? And I said, There you go. All right, so let's talk about the word butt head, because I think butt head is maybe, you know, what's happening at work too. There's ways that we can colloquialize or like make these learning lessons simpler for people. We don't have to use the science and you know, all the research and all these words, right? We can learn stuff just by watching. And if you watch movies or television programs and they have great characters, you're gonna learn about how people think, how what motivates people, you know, what they need. And sometimes they're gonna be evil characters, sometimes they're gonna be people who are like kind and sweet, and sometimes they're both. And in that space, understanding the complexity of the human being, which by the way, when we are at work, one of the things that we all struggle with is the complexity of these human beings that we're working with. That sometimes we like them and sometimes we don't like them, and sometimes we wish there was somebody else in that spot. And how do you still work with folks? Because in the end, we don't get to choose our coworkers, we don't get to choose our bosses. And learning to work with all of these different personalities is a way that helps, you know, you're gonna be successful if you can learn how to work with this diversity of people out there in the world. And I will tell you, I think books, I think movies, and I think television shows help you figure some of that stuff out if you're willing to think, reflect, consider, decide, try, analyze, try again. And I do think that that is actually a justification for spending an hour or two tonight watching television.