When Peer Leaders Stop Being A Team

Your peer leadership group has the same titles, the same seniority, and the same meeting cadence, yet it still feels like a cold war. People protect their turf, hold back information, and quietly keep score. We start by naming what’s really happening: a group of peers isn’t automatically a team, and “we just need more visibility” is often a polite way of saying trust is missing.

From there, we dig into what trust looks like in real working meetings: disclosure, follow-through, confidentiality, and the ability to tell the truth without getting punished. We talk about why organizations set teams up to fail by assuming successful adults already know how to “team,” even though cross-functional collaboration is a skill set that needs expectations, practice, and reinforcement. We also unpack the hidden risk of leaderless peer groups where nobody calls out dysfunction, nobody rewards the right behavior, and ego slowly replaces shared purpose.

Finally, we challenge leaders to look in the mirror. If you hand a hard decision to a peer group and walk away, you don’t get to be surprised when chaos follows. Delegation without support can damage relationships, waste talent, and drive good people out the door. If you care about healthy management teams, workplace culture, and better decision making, this conversation gives you a clear reset. 

Transcript

Morning Banter And Energy Check

Karman 0:30

Good morning, Scott and Tammy. Good morning, Karman.

Scott 0:36

Good morning, Karman.

Karman 0:39

I gotta admit, listeners, we're coming in sort of flat this morning.

Speaker 2 0:46

Scott, literally. Like normal. And when Scott's normal, it's not normal.

Karman 0:52

It's not normal.

Speaker 2 0:53

It's not normal. Scott, I gave you a look because I was like, what was that?

Scott 0:57

I know it was it was pretty epic. It was epic. I mean, it's it's it's the day after Easter. We're all coming down off of our ham and sugar high. So, you know, we're in that kind of sugar crash. It's also early. It's 7:30. For some of us, that's early. So are are you saying you're not up or you just normally aren't thinking this early?

Speaker 2 1:20

Let's just say there are many days I'm not thinking. And today was supposed to be my day off. Yeah. And it's not my day off, so I'm complaining. Okay, cool. Just a tit.

Karman 1:32

Just a titch.

Scott 1:33

Got it.

Karman 1:35

Scott, are we gonna keep a tally of how many times? I was thinking about it.

Speaker 2 1:40

This is Tammy complaints. This started before we actually hit the record button. So I think they're kind of used to it. I'm I'm like letting them know.

Scott 1:47

This is my first actually, what I what's happened is I've run out of ink. Stop it.

Speaker 2 1:54

It's a big deal. This is my first week the entire year.

Scott 1:57

It is. It's the yeah. You made it, you made it one full quarter. I did, which is impressive.

Speaker 2 2:03

I was very, very impressed with my my progress of being able to so just just like any journey of change.

Scott 2:11

Sometimes we have setbacks, and then we just have to reset.

Speaker 2 2:15

Yes, it's not a setback of my own choosing, but yes, it is because I said yes. So there you have it. It's my own fault. It's exactly right. Okay, good. I'm over it. I'm not, but I'm pretending that I am. And on we go.

Karman 2:30

I am not bright enough this morning to figure out how to make that segue into our topic.

Scott 2:35

Sometimes I was crossing my fingers there was like a change topic.

The Us Vs Them Peer Group

Karman 2:38

I'm like, oh yeah, thanks. Thank you for setting that up for me. Yeah, trying to tee it up, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, what I wanted to talk today about was peer leadership groups. And I recently had somebody ask me, well, tell me, about their situation that in their peer leadership group at work, there is a real us and them mentality. This person's solution was like, we should all be more forthcoming with each other. We should all understand each other so that we can work together. I wasn't sure if more visibility was the answer there, or they just fundamentally don't trust each other.

Speaker 2 3:26

Karman, let me ask a couple of questions before we jump in because I want to make sure that I understand kind of the setting here. When you say peer, right, you're talking like, hey, all the supervisors get together, or or all the managers at the middle level get together and they have meetings. That's what peer group means. Do I have that right? Yes. Okay. Second question: us versus them. Is it the peer group against another level of management or is it a peer group against one another?

Karman 3:58

Great question. Peer group against one another. Oh, so everybody's defending their own territory, and you know, nobody is willing to, you know, give anything up for the greater good.

Speaker 2 4:17

So then third question, what's the purpose of the peer group meetings?

Karman 4:22

I do not know this from the person who asked me the question.

Scott 4:27

And maybe that's where I could see, depending on the purpose of the of the meeting, the solution to me is different.

Karman 4:35

I do feel like there's an implication that there's supposed to be some decision making for the organization happening at these meetings.

Trust Problems And Disclosure Levels

Scott 4:44

Well, and I and I think about it, and I say if I think about it, frankly, the solution is the same, regardless of meeting type. Okay, go for it, Scott. Well, so it it really is this. Well, there's two things. One is what level of disclosure are they operating at? So you you mentioned in in the kind of intro, hey, we should share more. Well, if they're not sharing, then there is a lack of trust, period. And so then, you know, part of the solution has to be how do we figure out what is causing this lack of trust? Is it, hey, I did something that violated trust with Tammy, and now she thinks, or I have just continued her belief that I am untrustworthy. I don't do what I say, or I don't keep things in confidence, or whatever, you know, whatever that that is. Or is it something else? We have not had enough time together. Is it we really just don't share? Like what really is the issue? Because at the end of the day, when I think of a team, their role is to make decisions for the betterment of the organization. Doesn't really matter what level we're talking about. And it's we get very focused in our silo or in our turf or in our sandbox, and we make decisions for me instead of us. And so to me, the question is are you a team and are you working for the betterment of the organization? Or are you a me?

Why Organizations Fail At Teaming

Speaker 2 6:15

So, Scott, I it's funny because I was sitting here and I'm like, I think this happens all the time in companies. Oh, for sure it does. Right. And and it's not just peer groups, organization makes a decision that we're gonna have a team go solve a problem. Okay. Team, we're gonna give you this thing, right? Go take care of it. And they don't set the team up to be successful, they just set them up as a group of people and say, go do. And it's like we need to recognize that people don't know how to team. And and and just for a minute, I mean, it's like, yeah, logically, you would think that we can put a group of people together and say, go solve a problem and it should be fine. But it's not. And if you look at any sports team, all right, they don't win because they're talented and smart and capable. They win because they figure out how to work together. And organizations oftentimes don't spend one minute in how do you work together. They throw them together and expect them to be able to team. So the piece about that is yeah, trust is part of the process of being able to work together. Any great team in any sport, they practice, they have conversations, they spend time together, they build a culture, they set expectations, they do a whole bunch of stuff in order for that team to be effective. And they have a leader. Now, think about that for just a minute. Most teams, when they're peer groups, like you're talking about, there's no leader there. There's nobody that is actually saying, hey, you guys have to work this out. All right. They actually go hands off. It's a peer group. They're supposed to have the skill set and everything that they need to do. You go do. All right. So no one is setting expectations, no one is sitting down and helping them work through situations, no one is is saying that's not okay. I mean, reality is we kind of go hands off and we think, yep, they're they're mature enough to be able to do this. And yet, how many times have you watched teams completely fail in an organization? Because it has nothing to do with the individual maturity, it has to do with the skill set of teaming in this particular spot.

Scott 8:45

So I think it does yeah, and Tammy, the second part of that is also understanding my role. So there's a skill set of teaming, and what is my role in that? Well, that's many times. I watch I watch teams and those they're sitting there and they'll say, Well, that you know, that's a HR discussion or that's an operations discussion. I like that's not my department, so I'm not gonna weigh in. No, you should weigh in if you're really part of that team, and it's and it's a conversation. What other whether you are an expert in that world or not, you bring valuable insight from your perspective. If you're a team member, I don't need to know everything that's going on in every area. I can listen to what people are saying and I can say, hey, here's my experience, here's my perspective. And so many times it's like, well, I like that's not my realm of expertise, so I'm just gonna sit back. Well, or it's or you're talking about mine and I'm looking at you saying, You don't know what the hell I do. Right. And value your opinion.

Ego Turns Teams Into Silos

Speaker 2 9:49

So I get into other people's business, or I don't get into other people's business, or it's it's this piece, it's like if you're a member of a team, you're fully fledged, I care enough about it that I'm going to listen fully. I am going to give you everything I have in that spot because I want us to win. But you were like, if I'm gonna ask you really good questions, yes, I'm curious and help expand the conversation in all of that, because I want us to win. But if you are so self-centered, then what happens in that space is I'm not invested. I'm like, I'm doing my job. And as soon as someone on a team goes, Well, I'm doing my job, what you have effectively done is said that other people are not doing the job, their jobs, and we are not a team. So this thing, right, is recognizing ego, self-centeredness is, in my opinion, the thing that erodes teams. And you see this again, I'm gonna go back to sports. We're in the March Madness is just about done, right? And it's gonna be done by the time this podcast comes up. And if you watch these teammates, they constantly say, Hey, it's us. We couldn't do this without us. They're not saying, I had the great day today, and I'm the reason that we won. They're saying we won because as a team, we came together and made it happen. They're taking that ego out and they're recognizing the power of us. So, Karman, a peer group at work. We all have the same job title. Okay. The first thing you said in that when you were explaining it is hey, you know, they're pointing fingers, they're not coming together, and then they're not willing to give things up in order for something else to happen. There's no team in that. There's only I in that. And ego is going to kill that group, right? And that's what ego does. That's what selfishness does. It kills team, it kills group, it kills momentum, it kills vulnerability, it kills innovation, right? So it's ego. And in all honesty, I was their boss. This is traditionally what we've done in companies. You win together or you lose together. No one, no individual here will win. Okay. So if you guys can't get this done, please understand every single one of you is in a place where you are not performing. It's all for one, one for all. You all have the same consequences and the same rewards. And that, by the way, is one of the things of making a team. Same consequences, same rewards, going through the same fire. But if you can let them get away, if if teams, individuals inside of teams get away with some people win and some people lose, oftentimes that's when teaming does not work. And that's when egos get in the way and become self-interested. Scott, do you see that any differently?

What Leaders Must Reward And Fix

Scott 13:07

No, I mean it it is when you look at it, part of it is what how do you measure the team and and have measures of win-lose, whatever, whatever that is for your organization. At the end of the day, to me, there's two prongs here. One is as an individual, am I contributing to the team, both in sending and receiving information, thoughtful feedback, perspective, etc.? Right? Am I am I being open to that and am I open? And then the other part, frankly, is as a if you're the leader of that team and you're seeing this, I'm just gonna call it really bluntly, dysfunction.

Speaker 2 13:46

That was the word I was going to dysfunction, right? I'm watching the team not.

Scott 13:50

You have to call it out and say, hey, this isn't okay. And you know, I would probably call it out individually at first, and I would applaud those who demonstrate it publicly. So if Karman's demonstrating it, I would say, yes, Karman, that's exactly what when we're together, that's exactly what we need. Thank you. Because I want, I mean, it's the old, I forget who the that the one Ford CEO that took over. Yeah, that story that right, everyone, every meeting is saying everything's okay, everything's okay, everything's okay. And the results organizationally was were terrible.

Speaker 2 14:28

Didn't support the I'm okay messaging. Yep.

Scott 14:30

Yeah. And someone who didn't normally come to the meeting came to the meeting and like said, Hey, like, I'm having this problem and this problem, this problem. And the Ford CEO stood up and like applauded and said, Thank you.

Stop Delegating Decisions To Flounder

Speaker 2 14:41

Thank you for telling the truth. Yeah, right. I think part of this is you're right, reward the behavior we're looking for, you know, have the conversations, but also when you set up the team, set up the team to have them understand you win as a team or you lose as a team. And this individual thing isn't going to be accepted. I mean, that you can do that before anything happens so that people understand. So then you can applaud in the right places and you can hold accountable in the other places. And the other thing, Karman, and again, I'm not trying to let these people off the hook because ultimately these are a bunch of successful adults. Okay. They have reached a certain level in their career and they have been successful employees. So there's a part of that though, I expect those individuals to learn and grow and figure out how to do this together as a team. I expect their boss to figure out how to help that group become a team. All right. And then I have a question behind all of this. Is the peer group the right place to be solving this problem? Okay. And I will tell you, one of the things that drives me crazy inside of organizations is we're like, okay, let's take this thing and give it to a team. And I'm like, I'm not sure that that's where the decision should be being made. Are we just taking a decision that should have been made at a different level inside the organization, pushing it down, hoping that they come to our conclusion? Are we saying I don't have time for this? And so then I just hand it over to a team and let the team flounder. So, like, that's the other place I would go in the in the back side of this is did we actually take this task and give it to the right entity in order to be able to solve that problem? And if a team is the right answer, the organization needs to understand you do have a job to help that group of people become a team. You don't just hand it off and walk away. That doesn't work.

Scott 16:42

I would add one thing. It can work. You just have you can't complain about the results or lack of results. So if you if you're gonna hand it off and walk away, you're gonna get what you get.

Speaker 2 16:55

Well, right?

Scott 16:55

And I think the saying is you get what you get and don't throw fit. So if you're not gonna do the work, to me, it's a twofold. If you're not gonna do the work to follow up and support, etc., you get what you get, don't throw fit. We also have to understand if there if that group that you assigned it to doesn't get to where you would have liked them, it's also your fault because you didn't set them up there for success and or you didn't develop them in a way to think clearly, logically. So it's also your fault. So either you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The Real Cost Of Bad Teaming

Speaker 2 17:25

I I agree with that, Scott. And here's the piece that would drive me crazy is I see organizations, executive leaders sometimes go, oh, I don't want to deal with that. Let them make the decision. They've been telling us they want to be involved, let them make the decision. And so they quote unquote delegate it to this group of people without setting them up for success. Okay. Now we they go through all the turmoil, the thing that Karman's talking about, all that stuff. And yeah, executives start to say, oh, see, look, our team right down here, they're a bunch of losers. Okay. And they are partially set up for failure because the leadership didn't take care of it. But here's the other side of it. There might not have been a problem at that level until we put them into this thing, didn't prep them, asked them to work together. And then now I, the person who said, please go work as a team and do this, created a problem with that particular group. And I have helped negatively impact their relationships. And for me, that's the other side of this. So, as leaders, like, why are you putting them in a team? And if you are, you have to do your work. Otherwise, you're going to set maybe very solid and good employees up for failure because we threw them into the deep end of the pool. No support, no direction, no roles, no leadership. We abandoned them in that team. And then we're just watching the chaos ensue. And that's the piece, right? So, yeah, this team, do they need to figure it out? Yeah, can they? Sure. And prior to all that, should executive leadership above them have helped them be successful? Well, yeah, if not, you're wasting talent, time, and you only have so many chances to mess with people before good people leave. And you're wasting those opportunities for something that doesn't have much return on investment.