The Leadership Line

How Great Coworkers Step Up, Speak Up, And Grow Together

• Tammy Rogers and Scott Burgmeyer • Season 7 • Episode 2

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What does a good coworker look like when the stakes are real, the calendar is packed, and life crashes through the door? We share the story of a year that stripped leadership down to the studs and revealed a team stronger than anyone realized. When personal loss shook the top, our crew didn’t freeze—they stepped in, made decisions, and carried the load without keeping score. That experience reframed how we think about support, accountability, and the space leaders must create for others to grow.

We dig into a practical playbook for everyday teamwork. First, act when you see a need, even if it’s “not your job.” That see something, do something mindset compounds into a culture of ownership. Then, speak up with hard truths in a soft way. Don’t triangulate; go direct. We talk through scripts, timing, and tone so feedback feels like maintenance, not warfare. Civility matters, especially when the default is blame and name calling. And timing matters even more—address issues early, before resentment builds and voices rise.

We also unpack the other side of feedback: receiving it. Most workplaces reward defensiveness and perfection theater. We want the opposite. Curiosity, clear asks, and next steps create momentum and trust. Leaders have a special role here: stay small longer so the team can get big. It’s uncomfortable, but it’s the fastest route to discovering hidden capacity and building resilience that lasts beyond any one person. If you’re ready to cultivate coworkers who are co-builders, not bystanders, this conversation gives you the language, habits, and mindset to start today.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a teammate who needs it, and leave a quick review so others can find it. What’s one hard truth you’ll say softly this week?

Tammy:

Good morning, Tammy and Scott. Hello, hello, hello. Good morning, Karman. How are you?

Karman:

It sounds like I'm I'm uh coming to you from the Become More cave with all the Grand Canyon.

Tammy:

Become more Grand Canyon.

Scott:

Grand Canyon. Such a Grand Canyon.

Tammy:

Have you ever been there, Scott?

Scott:

I have.

Tammy:

Karman, have you? I have. This is one of the places in the United States that I want to visit. And every time I think I'm gonna get to go, something happens, and we have not been there yet, and I need to experience it. So it is on my bucket list.

Karman:

You just need to get find a client who's really close to the Grand Canyon.

Tammy:

Do you know? I we've been in Phoenix, which by the way is not that far away. And I just like we have family there, and it's like, let's go. And they're like, no. And then I go see a client, and then it's like I don't leave enough time. I have to like add a day so I can just like go and spend some time because I want to experience it. I really do. It's one of the few big sites in the United States, continental United States, that I haven't seen. It's time, it's time for me to experience it.

Speaker 2:

Sounds like a commitment.

Tammy:

Are you gonna write that down, Tammy? Um, I have not made a commitment to that yet. Once I have a date on the calendar, then oh, you just made a wish. I made a wish. I was talking out loud. It's on my bucket list, but it's not on my commitment list yet. So let's make sure our wording is correct.

Speaker 2:

Okay, got it.

Tammy:

Thanks for thanks for that, Scott. You're so helpful.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm just trying to help you out.

Tammy:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I want you to achieve goals.

Karman:

We've been talking about lessons learned in 2025. And last week we one of the pieces we touched on was about managing our calendars. And part of that was how we as are good co-workers that help other people, you know, not blow up their calendars. So my question this week is about being a good coworker and what that looks like. And I know Scott and Tammy, as you guys are co-workers at a very high level, you know, co-CEOs.

Scott:

Yeah, we are high often.

Karman:

Are high.

Tammy:

Thanks, Scott. Thanks.

Karman:

And as we look back on 2025, like the way that you guys supported each other was really important in the last year. And also the ways that we support each other at every layer of an organization is are important, but maybe look a little different. So, so my question today is really like, what does it look like to be a good coworker at different levels of an organization? And how did that affect you in 2025?

Tammy:

Yeah. Well, this one is near and dear to my heart. Okay. So I'm I'm gonna talk first about one, and then depending on what y'all talk about, there's another piece. Okay. So I think most listeners know that last year um my husband and I had three parents who were still alive. And by middle of May, we had lost all three parents, and we lost two of those parents on the same day. Michael's dad and my mother um actually died within a couple of hours of one another. And anybody who has ever gone through these kinds of things really, I'm sure, understands your life is just it's like the rug is pulled out from underneath you and your head doesn't work, at least my head didn't work. And so in that spot, I was not able to function the way that I am used to functioning. I was not able to contribute in the way that I was able historically to contribute. While I was like physically there, I wasn't I wasn't bringing what I normally could bring to the table. And that's something when you're at uh a CEO level of an organization, that's a problem because that leadership and that vision and that steady rock comes from the top of the organization. And when that rock isn't steady, what's gonna happen, right? What's how like it yeah, how does the organization know what's important and where we're headed and what the big decisions are in that space? And the fact of the matter is, this organization did two things. One, okay, Scott stepped up and into that spot and he got bigger, and he got bigger in a time frame that his life was not easy either, and yet he stepped in and stepped up. But the other thing that was cool is to watch the rest of the staff also step up and step in. So they didn't just wait, they didn't just say, Well, Tammy's not responding, so there's nothing I can do. The fact of the matter is that the staff actually made decisions and ventured out and did things that help this organization continue and to move forward when I was MIA missing in action in that particular spot. And I learned such an important lesson. One, it's really cool that you can like be weak and allow others to be strong and like take that time. You don't have to always be that thing that that it's okay. It's okay for you to be in that spot because others will step up. I also learned not only is it okay, it's imperative even when there isn't a reason, because when you do that, it allows others to blossom, it allows others to grow, it allows others to show what else that they can bring to the table. And if you're over here doing it all, you are not making enough space for others to be brilliant and to do all the things that they can do. And I really learned this really cool thing that we had an awesome staff and a brilliant staff, but I didn't even know what the baseline was. The staff actually was more awesome and more brilliant and more capable than I ever really recognized because when I couldn't, they could, and I missed that because I was always doing stuff, and that thing we uh we use a line stay stupid longer as a leader, stay weak longer. You'll find out just how brilliant your team is, you'll find out just how much they can contribute. And honestly, I don't think, and Karman, you'll have to tell me, but I don't think the staff felt put out. I think the staff actually was proud of themselves for what they were able to accomplish when I when I was missing in action. So that was a really cool learning lesson. And to let others support me, I'm never gonna forget 2025 for that, because no one's ever supported me like that before in my professional life, ever. And it was deeply touching and deeply meaningful for me.

Scott:

Tammy, I I think what for me the the fascinating part of this is like we would do it again in a heartbeat, of course. Hopefully, we never have to.

Tammy:

I won't lose three parents again in one year. I promise, I have no parents left. We're good.

Scott:

I think the other learning lesson here is as a leader, there's an opportunity to reflect to say, where am I underestimating staff? And or they may be underestimating themselves. They may not think, oh, I can't, or that, you know, and so there's there's a there's probably a place here to be looking at and saying, how how am I growing? And have I grown the team far enough? Should I be doing more? Should I be taking a back seat more? Even though historically I've always been in doing this or doing that.

Tammy:

And I think it's I think it's unintentional. And what I mean by that is as a leader, for sure, you're just doing this thing that you're capable of doing, and it never even occurred to you to stay stupid or stay weak longer, right? Because you're trying to contribute just like everybody else. And I don't think the staff is over there saying, you know, um, always let go, let me do more. Now, sometimes they are, right? Okay, but the staff also is like, you know, hey, I'll just go do other stuff because this has been taken care of, right? And so again, they're not purposefully not growing or getting becoming more in that space. We're just all kind of in this spot where like, you know, Tammy's really good at that, Scott's really good at that, Karman's really good at that. And we might get a little complacent in that spot and not recognize that we can actually do and be more. However, as a leader, you have to get smaller in order to let others get bigger, right? And this was forced on us. What would happen if we were smart enough to do it? Not because we had to, but because we want to, because we recognize that it would be good. And that's that stay stupid longer, stay smaller longer, stay weak or longer. And I know I don't know any leader who likes those words. Those words are rub you the wrong way. And yet there was a huge gift in 2025 for me actually doing those three things, and I would have never chosen them on my own, never, not not with my personality, never. Okay, and yet what a huge gift. I mean, I I wish I could we had time to explain everything that happened to me in the months of June, July, and August as I watched the team climb the mountain and they carried me. They carried me. I did not carry them. It was unbelievable.

Scott:

So Tammy, I think your example of a good coworker or a good peer or a good team member is number one, we step in when we need to step in. And we don't expect to be paid back. Right. But if you think about this, all of us did this, and we aren't sitting here thinking, what is Tammy gonna f do this for me? We just did it. Yeah, we did right, and and and knowing that if any one of us had a situation, hopefully not that dire, not that extreme, that in the long run, it will even out. There will be times when other people step in. Now, I think the other side of this is where appropriate, we're also holding each other to it. And I say that where okay, in Tammy's situation, it's pretty much expected that we want Tammy to step out and go take care of that all of life that happens when you have a parent past. If we take it down and we say, Oh, we tripped a little bit with this client. Yeah, I would say a good team member is going to recognize that they're gonna step in and they're gonna fill that. Because we're gonna trip. It's gonna happen. It's not if, it's when. And then we have to circle back and say, All right, let's have a growth, growth question conversation. What worked, what didn't work, what needs to be done differently, you know, and if it's and if it's performance related, we need to call a spade a spade and say, you know, hey, that this was not your greatest moment.

Tammy:

Do you know, Scott? There's two things in there, and and I'm gonna address the second one that you just brought up, right? To me, one of the most important things that we can do to support one another is to be truthful about what's working, what's not working, what do we want to have be different in the future. And I think that that is something that many organizations from the top down, they don't tell staff the truth. Okay, but we also don't tell each other the truth from a peer level.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Tammy:

And it's like, well, that's not my job. The big boss should tell my my co-worker that this isn't working. And if you want to be a great coworker, you need to tell hard truths in a soft way. How do I say that's not working for me and have them hear that without it causing a fight, without that person getting defensive? It really is how do we work better together to get these outcomes? And I think that is a piece that if we don't tell our truths what it is that we need and hold each other as peers accountable, we as an organization are not going to grow. But that individual that quote unquote, I say I love my teammates, but I won't tell them the truth about what's working and what's not working, then I love myself more because I'm not willing to go through them my uncomfortableness of having that conversation. And I think that's critical if we're going to be a great teammate, is that we have to figure that out. And you'll see this in great sports teams, right? It's like, hey, you missed that play. It's like, yeah, man, I did. And you take responsibility, but you don't just ignore it. You you tell someone, I need you to take care of that. If you don't take care of that, then this doesn't get taken care of. We have to have the courage to have that conversation on both sides, right?

Karman:

Yeah, I mean, you have to be willing to receive that conversation as well as initiate it.

Tammy:

Absolutely. And and that is something that I mean, you know, and Scott and I don't necessarily do this in front of the staff, but everybody should know if Scott screws something up, I'm in his face. Or if I screw something up, he's in my face, right? We tell each other now. We don't go, hey, you and use all those swear words. It's like me, you ignorant slut. Well, he has said that to me. And those exact words. Oh, you have in jest, right? But the the fact of the matter is, I mean, yeah, we we hold each other accountable and we have to because we're not going to get better if someone doesn't point it out, right? But we would want the frontline staff to do that too.

Scott:

I feel so strongly about this that if you are not doing that, if you are not giving it and receiving it, you're not a good team member.

Tammy:

It's a performance issue. I mean, we would have that conversation with the staff, with the staff member. If if for Karman, for instance, if if you were not talking to one of your peers and saying, You let me down here, and this is what I need from you in the future. This is what I need, and I need this thing, right? And Scott and I try very hard to when staff members come to us, say, have you talked to? We we we pushed like take it back. And sometimes the answer is no, and it's like, well, what would you like to say to them? And we can help them think about words and language, but ultimately Scott and I do not want to create triangles, okay? And so that is a performance issue. And if you're not talking to your peers about what is and is not working, and by the way, tell them what is working too, don't just beat them up, okay, in that space. But if you're not talking to them, then you are not a great employee and you're not a great teammate.

Scott:

It's no different if you think about a relationship outside of work, yes, with a spouse, a significant other, a child. Oh, I really don't like when they do that. Oh, it's really frustrating.

Tammy:

Oh my god, well, think about that. Do you have friends who bitch and complain about their spouse? Okay, and they're telling you my favorite question is have you talked to your spouse about that?

Scott:

Like, what did they say when you talk to them about that?

Tammy:

Like, no, I'm like, I don't want to hear about your your marital issues. Go talk to them. Don't tell me your issues with them. Cut it out.

Scott:

And there's an element here though that we we have made it more and more normal to not either not have that conversation, or we get our emotions get elevated, or our voices get elevated, we're yelling, and we don't have a civil conversation. And it's like, wait a minute, what happened where we can't have a conversation and just look, watch the news, watch, right? And and know I'm not having a political conversation, but just look at all it's just worth pointing fingers and blaming and doing all these things and say, wait a minute, is that a good team member? Would you want to work in an organization that did that? I'm gonna point my finger over here and say, Well, if you wouldn't, if you would have done that, we wouldn't have this problem.

Tammy:

Really? Give me a break. And not only are we pointing fingers, when we point fingers, then we use language where we name call. Okay. Yeah. And the piece of it is if you're gonna point fingers at me and name call, it's really hard for me to stay in neutral. It's really hard for me to hear what the message is behind all of that. So again, hard truth in a soft way. Quit doing a hard truth in a I waited till I was resentful. And then to go back to your word, Karman, right? That thing that you talked about before, it's like I was resentful. Now I've lost my temper, and now I want to let you have it. Bam! In your face. Well, no, you waited. Go have that conversation when it first comes up, when you're still not in a place where you're in turmoil about it, and have the conversation and talk about what it is that would make your life easier, and then ask them what they need, what would make their life easier, and work it out. Because here's the deal: if this is a great organization, you want to stay in that organization. You don't want to necessarily jump jobs every, you know, 12 to 18 months. It's like, what can I learn and how can I grow in this particular spot? And you want to make it a great environment, you can be part of making it a great environment, or you can be part of making it a crappy environment. Right. And so, good coworker, have the conversations early. Talk about what it is that you both need. Listen and say what can you do for one another? Because I can tell you, Michael and I have been married. 31 years. One of the most important lessons that we learned is I got to figure out what makes it better for him, right? And if he's also doing that same thing, figuring out what makes it better for me. We actually like being together. But if it's all about me, me, me, me and what I need, or not having the conversation, letting the resentment, that's when we have problems. So I love that one, Scott. That thing, right? About telling the truth. That's another good one. So that support piece, I step in when I see it. Okay. And then the second piece of I'm telling the truth in those relationships, good, bad, and ugly. Okay. And I want to come back to your other one. You talked about when you see a need stepping in. When you worked for Bridgetown, you did something really interesting out on the manufacturing floor to help people understand that they had a responsibility when they saw something. Do you remember what it was that you guys did?

Scott:

No, I don't. I'm sure it was brilliant and really impactful because I don't remember it.

Tammy:

I'm laughing. So you would put trash out on the manufacturing floor in spots, like you know, underneath this little piece of equipment or in this walkway or whatever it was. And sometimes underneath that trash, if someone were to pick it up.

Scott:

Oh, that's right. Yeah, we did do that.

Tammy:

There would be a very nice gift card or something.

Scott:

Yeah, yeah, I forgot we did that. Yeah.

Tammy:

Like, you know, a $20 bill, $50 bill. Okay. And that piece was saying, hey, if you see something and you do something about it, that's the right thing. If you see something and you don't do something about it, that's the wrong thing. And for a whole year, Scott's organization strategically did all these things to get their frontline people to pick up trash in the parking lot, to do, I mean, all these right to say, yes, you can make a difference by just seeing something and doing something. And I have never forgotten that. And I also remember being there when someone actually we were walking through and someone picked something up and there was like a $50 bill underneath a piece of trash. And that person was so excited. And it was like, it's all it takes. It's all it takes. Pick up a little bit of trash. Right. I loved that, Scott. It was one of my favorite things ever. Karman, what would you add to this conversation?

Karman:

I think I would go back to that piece of like, if you're willing to say the thing as a coworker, that that as a as a good coworker, you need to be ready and okay to receive that, that criticism, that suggestion, that opportunity to learn and to take that in a positive, okay, now I know and I will do better kind of way. And that can be hard. I had a conversation this week with former co-worker who we're and we were talking about how do you get used to receiving feedback or how do you teach somebody to get used to receiving feedback? And that's a podcast for another day. But you know, it it fits into that both how do you create good relationships as a coworker and how do you create a culture? How how do you be part of a culture where we support each other and we're here to do a good job together?

Tammy:

You know, we should actually remember that piece, right? Because it in all honesty, um, I don't believe most organizations create a culture of feedback, they create a culture of defensiveness and a culture of, I'm trying to prove that I am I'm awesome a hundred percent of the time. And I do think that there is something about that because how do we learn this? Most of us, right? That is not a skill set that we learned as a kid. It's not a skill set that we learned when we first came into the workforce and recognizing that we can't get better unless we consider what's not working. And so I love that. You are you are absolutely right. This is a good one, Karman. Thank you for bringing this one to the table for us.