The Leadership Line

What Really Drives Career Satisfaction?

• Tammy Rogers and Scott Burgmeyer • Season 6 • Episode 32

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Have you ever felt trapped in your career, wondering if the only way up is out? This candid conversation delves into the fascinating dynamics of succession planning and career advancement within organizations.

We tackle the uncomfortable truth many professionals face: the perception that meaningful career advancement often requires leaving your current employer. Our discussion explores how different organizational structures impact growth opportunities – from learning-focused environments that nurture talent to rigid hierarchies that box employees into limited roles. You'll discover why some companies struggle with internal advancement, whether due to size constraints, leadership philosophies, or traditional career path requirements.

The conversation introduces a practical framework for understanding talent management: the "buy, build, boost, or boot" approach. We examine the financial realities driving career decisions, including the uncomfortable fact that external hires typically command higher salaries than internally promoted employees. This salary disparity explains why strategic job-hopping often results in higher lifetime earnings than company loyalty.

Beyond compensation, we explore what truly creates career satisfaction. While fair pay matters, meaningful work, mutual appreciation between employee and employer, and continuous skill development prove far more powerful for long-term fulfillment. For those feeling pigeonholed, we offer actionable strategies to break free – including proactively developing skills your organization will need before they ask for them.

Whether you're considering your next career move or building a more effective talent development strategy for your team, this episode provides fresh perspectives on creating meaningful growth without necessarily changing employers. What steps will you take to ensure your career path reflects your true potential?

Karman:

Good morning Scott and Tammy Morning Karman. Scott just like mocked me, I think visually.

Tammy:

He's such a nice man.

Scott:

I am, I was well. I was trying to talk over Tammy too.

Tammy:

You want to go first, Scott?

Scott:

Done. I was trying to be efficient use of our time Got it. If we said if Tammy and I both said good morning at the same time, done it's a done deal.

Karman:

Right no wasted excellence there. You guys just talk simultaneously. Let zoom pick out which voice it's going to record. And sort of like a like oh, I can fix that, scott just put Tammy on mute. And sort of like like oh, I can fix that, scott just put.

Tammy:

Tammy on mute. It's true, it's true. And you know, I'm sure Scott thinks that his opinions are the best, so that's how he does it. He has to force it.

Scott:

It's not about the best or the worst, it's just about who's normally right.

Tammy:

Oh yeah, you guys all heard it right there. I mean, I'm telling you, it just happens. Your head is so big I can't even believe, like you can fit in your office.

Scott:

It is a struggle. Sometimes I have to turn sideways.

Karman:

But it is Speaking of perceptions. You know how you and any individual gets perceived within their organization starts to affect what their opportunities are, what projects, what new jobs you know come along and are offered to them. Sometimes people have trouble. Maybe they've been pigeonholed or feel pigeonholed in a particular way and want to reinvent themselves. And so my question today is sort of about succession planning and opportunities when you're within an organization and I think there's a little bit of a perception sometimes that you have to leave an organization to really move up or like to really be appreciated, maybe even to come back at some point, but that you'll never like really move much more than a step or two without stepping outside first. Do you see that happening and is there a solution? Should there be a solution? Should people just accept like I'm going to have to leave if I want to be the CEO?

Tammy:

if I want to be the CEO, Karman. I think this is interesting because I think there's so many pieces of this and ways to delve into it, and one of them is an organizational issue. Okay, so there are organizations that struggle with being able to like, intentionally, be a learning organization where we can give people opportunities to continue to say what's my next learning piece, what's my next learning piece? What's my next learning piece, my next learning piece, what's my next learning piece? And in that space, when we do not intentionally and thoughtfully and purposefully create a learning organization where people can expand and become more than they were before, right, then we have a tendency to look at people, put them in boxes and say this is all they're good for, right, we're not teaching leaders how to develop people, we're not making spaces and places for people to progress inside the organization, all those types of things.

Tammy:

And sometimes you know that's. You can be a huge, large organization with tons of internal promotion opportunities and still be this place where you know, I'm sorry, you are not in production, so therefore you can only go this far or you're only in this department. You can't cross and expand into another area. We see a lot of organizations who are super rigid like that. We also see small organizations where there's not a lot of you know. Hey, we're an organization of 30. There's not a ton of internal promotion at the top, because maybe some of our top people are in their forties and fifties and they, you know, they have the next 10 years and you're going to be ready before that 10 years up. So I mean, it depends on where the organization is at and those types of things. So let's just kind of set that inside and say, hey, if an organization is one where there's places to go and they're interested in developing individuals and not putting them in these boxes, then we have something we can work with.

Scott:

And I think there's a conversation or a organizational philosophy that you want to be able to determine, because it is this, you know, as Karman talked about succession plan, it is this what is our philosophy on how we're going to grow people. So, is it Tammy to your point? Is it we're going to be rigid?

Scott:

I worked for an organization that, once you hit, if you wanted to go into a certain role or above, you had to have experience in another country because it was a global company and they wanted you to have that experience. If you wanted to move up, if you wanted to be a plant manager, you had to have worked in two or more different facilities. Now, again, I find those rules fascinating to me, because what you're saying is I'm incompetent of learning what I need to learn unless I'm working in that facility which I could get. Someone that experience in lots of ways may or may not be saying go uproot your family to go over there. Now I also think there's inherent risk of an organization where the only place you've ever worked or seen is that one place, place because you could become in, you know, a corporate inbreeding place, which is not also not good.

Tammy:

Well, I'm working with an organization right now small executive team there's, I think six or seven of them. Three of them have been inside that organization for more than 30 years and have never worked anyplace else.

Scott:

Yeah.

Tammy:

And they're having a hard time because they're like we're awesome and don't get me wrong, I'm sure that they are good. Okay, I'm not going to be the one that says that they're not. However, they have no experience to know if they're good or not. There's nothing to compare it against and they're very tied to status quo. The way we've done it is the way that it needs to be done into the future. So if it's this internal, if everything is internal, you're not willing to buy talent ie someone who already has the skill set and bring them in and you have to pay more for them because they have that skill set.

Tammy:

You buy the talent, okay, or then build or boost. That's taking talent internally inside the organization and building and boosting that talent right. So those are kind of those two options of how do we promote and then are you getting rid of, are you booting talent? That isn't great and that becomes believe it or not, another question in this whole thing about promotions and succession planning. Because if you're not booting talent, you are carrying dead weight, and so this is kind of an interesting thing Buy, build or boost. Build and boost right or boot. You kind of have to have those Bs in place in order for you to be able to know kind of how we're working with talent inside of an organization.

Scott:

And I think the reality is you're going to buy it or you're going to buy it. I mean, you're paying for it either way. So if I go externally and I'm going to hire someone with that talent, I likely am going to pay a premium.

Tammy:

Premium correct. That's why I mean buy yeah.

Scott:

Or if I'm going to grow that talent it is going to cost me. In my experience, when you kind of do the math, it's about the same. I mean I don't know that you save any more money or not. I think it's just how much time do you have? If you have time, you're likely better off growing it. If you don't have time oh, I can't wait, I don't have two years Then you're likely better off just buying it outright.

Tammy:

And the piece about that is then we're looking at that build or boost spot. Okay, that time, as an employee to go back to what Karman's talking about if we have an organization that is willing to build and or boost someone in that spot, as an employee, what are you doing to put yourself in a spot that says they're going to see me as someone who's continuing to level up, they're going to see me as that person that they're willing to invest in? And there's a lot of times where employees are like feed me, feed me, feed me, give me the training, give me the training, give me the training, give me the experiences. Yes, okay, it's important that an organization does develop their staff, but if you want to not be put in a box, what are you doing to develop your own set of skills? Right, how are you bringing like to the table your learning experiences? Where are you going to get some of those learning experiences? Where are you going to get some of those learning experiences? And it doesn't have to be formal education, don't get me wrong. Getting you know, getting a degree, getting a master's degree, getting a PhD, that's all fine and dandy.

Tammy:

Ultimately, though, what's the skill set that this organization is going to need in three years and are you going after it? And in technology, that's really something that we've seen smart technologists do. They see that next piece of software, they see that next you know coding language, they see whatever that, and they go out and they learn those skills. So then, when the organization adopts it, they already know how to do that right. And I think that is one of the secrets if you want to not be put in the box. What is the additional skill set that you are going after? Not that the organization is giving you. You are going after it yourself because you're saying I want that job and that job is going to need this particular skill set. How am I going to get it?

Karman:

The other thing I want to clarify here is, if I'm hearing you right, if I'm an individual, it sounds like I can make more money if I'm the outside hire than if I've stuck around and grown within.

Tammy:

C, that is a painful truth. That is not a myth. You know, organizations, if we think about it historically, somewhere in that 3% range rate is kind of the increase inside of organizations is kind of the increase inside of organizations. And if money is your gig and you are going to stay inside of an organization and you kind of get that 3%, 3%, 3%, now I'm going to take that promotion. Maybe it's a boost of 10%. However, we do know, just looking at kind of the research, that if you stay inside the organization, your salary over your career is going to be lower than that person who leaves every couple of years, which is why people leave.

Tammy:

Okay, money is important to them and their times in your life becomes even more and more and more and more important. We actually lost a staff member this spring because they were in a transition in life. Right, they're in a place where they're starting a family. And when you're starting a family and you're like, hey, I'm going to have a little one and it's my first time and I have, I'm going to put that kid in daycare and I need a crib and I need this and I need that. You never had all that stuff before.

Tammy:

Money's talking to you that stuff before money's talking to you, and so that is one of the places where we see people. They're like you can almost anticipate that there's going to be a job change in their family one way or another, because ultimately, that's what's important right now, but that is unfortunately Now. Can companies combat that? You can. Who are your superstars? Who are your high potentials? Are you providing them with the experiences that they need for those promotions? Are you clearly putting together a career path for them and are you willing to do more than that typical 3% right? What are you doing to help them boost their financial success? And that's not an easy thing to do.

Scott:

Yeah, I probably react a little bit because pay is such a hot topic and I know we spent time at our retreat last year talking about our comp philosophy and I know sometimes people don't agree with that right and you know so to me that whether it's 3% or 5% or 0%, I don't know, for my superstars, Tammy, are you going to overpay your superstars versus the role they're in today?

Tammy:

So this is a really great question and it's a painful one because there's two sides of this. Right now they're contributing at this level. Okay, they actually, we can see their potential, but they're not there yet. They're in that learning curve. Oftentimes they know that they're better than their peers and they want to be paid better than the current job that they're in because they know that they're better than their peers. And yet this is what the job. If you look and you do kind of the comp studies, it fits in there right. And it is a piece where oftentimes people, not just superstars are going to leave because the financial compensation is better over here.

Scott:

Which may or may not be a similar job.

Tammy:

Correct. And here's the other piece about that Okay, is money a satisfier? Is money the thing that is going to make someone like, say, I am in the right place, doing the right thing? And what we we know is that money actually is the dissatisfier. Okay, oftentimes, money is about comparing your, your income, to somebody else's income, and anytime you're in this place where you're comparison, comparing yourself against somebody else, you're going to lose. There's always going to be someone taller. There's always going to be someone smarter. There's always going to be someone faster. There's always going to be someone right, always. You can watch this in professional sports, right, you have, I'll just use football, because that's my sport you can look at. You know who makes who's the number one quarterback in the NFL? Okay, and it's like they're making X, y, z millions of dollars per game that they play. Okay, now let's just talk about that for a minute. Millions of dollars per game. Does anybody really need millions of dollars per game?

Scott:

No, Need yes, yes.

Tammy:

Want? Yes, right, and the want oftentimes comes from well, I am number one, I should be paid more than number two, okay. Well, then the rankings change and then number two becomes number one for a year and they now they need more money. And then we have the next person and the next thing we do is we do play this game and our salaries just get completely and totally out of whack, because you have to prove to me that I am, fill in the blank, better than the person that's standing next to me. You know what my guess is take the money out of that.

Tammy:

Are you loving playing football? Okay. Are you loving playing the sport? Is it something that brings you joy? I'm going to ask you that same question. Take it out of sports now.

Tammy:

Are you loving your job or are you working for the paycheck? And in that space, I think we do know that, long term, if you're not being paid a fair wage, that's one thing, okay, but money does not make you happy. Your salary does not say I love this work. I want to work for this particular company? Okay, it is not the thing that brings you peace inside. So what is that Typically work that you love? Okay. An organization that thinks you're all that in a bag of chips and you think that the organization is all that in a bag of chips, right. And so there's this mutual appreciation back and forth, where they know that we are good together, right? So knowing that you love the work, knowing that you're appreciated for the work that you are doing, and then, believe it or not, continuing to grow and expand.

Tammy:

People get very unsatisfied if they're stuck in this place where they're not. Let's go back to Karman's question succession planning where they're not growing and succession growth isn't always a job title. Sometimes it's interesting work that pushes me beyond what I did before. That's intellectually satisfying and emotionally I am continuing to grow. Those are the things that make us satisfied at work, and so it's not as much about the title. So are we as an organization providing those opportunities? And are you as an individual preparing yourself outside of having the organization feed you those things? Are you actually going after it? And if you are, then I think you have the best chance of not being stuck in a box. And even if you then are in the wrong organization and they've done that to you, you have the opportunity to move and go someplace else and see if that organization is more about that openness and that growth and that ability to move forward in that space.