Don't Make These Common Hiring Mistakes

Join us as we discuss the most common hiring mistakes!

With employee turnover at a high and new roles needing to be filled each day, it's important to find a balance between finding a quality applicant and filling a role.

Questions or topic suggestions? Let us know!
podcast@creativesolutionsgp.com
podcast@aveeapartners.com

Connect with us!
https://www.linkedin.com/company/creativesolutionsgp
https://www.linkedin.com/company/aveea-partners

Meet your hosts:
Tammy K Rogers
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tammerarogers

Scott Burgmeyer
https://www.linkedin.com/in/burgy

Other Resources:
http://www.creativesolutionsgp.com
http://www.aveeapartners.com
http://chiefoptimizationofficer.com/

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Leadership Line, a podcast that covers everyday work issues. From dealing with jerks at work to feeling burnt out, Tammy and Scott's experience, along with their different perspectives, help listeners grow, examine realistic options and alternatives, and identify those actionable solutions to the tough issues we face every day at work. All right, so recently I was on LinkedIn and I saw a post that I thought may interest you guys and our listeners. So this lady basically had a client and he wanted an executive level position. And this company spent 90 minutes interviewing him and in two weeks hired him from start to finish. So he had a meeting with the COO, the CEO, and the HR Zec, and they hired him. No assessment, no in-person interview. What do you guys think of that?

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Of course, my first question is is the person working out.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

What's the rest of the story? 90 days, nine months, two years later. How's it going?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

All right. So let's set that, let's set that question aside. And I think it's fair to just make the assumption that yes, they're working out. I would bet some people are thinking, well, that's way too fast. That's super interesting about this is in today's job market and talent market, you will you want to win the war for talent or you want to make a big dent in it? Get super clear on what you're hiring for, what are the skills, and you just go. I mean, if you think about what they did, is they said, I want this. This person seems like a great fit. Let's go.

Tammy 1:48

So, Courtney, one of the things you you didn't give us in your in your overview, and the article might not have even talked about it. So, all right, they had three interviews. Those three interviews took a total of 90 minutes. But I will tell you, I think a big part of this, because I agree with Scott, you have to go fast. However, you go fast after you go slow. And what I mean by that is did we think this job through? Did we do our homework in terms of knowing what success looks like in that position? Did we spend the time saying what kind of person would be successful? Did we do a phenomenal job of recruiting ahead of time to know that anybody we talked to was really qualified? And we didn't have any conversations with folks that were not qualified. We'd already checked references, we already knew their body of work, where they came from. Because at an executive level, you don't hide. It's not like, you know, that at an executive level, your work is really, really visible in terms of what you've done in other organizations. And so if they did all the pre-work, then I think that that 30 minutes is not 30 minutes per interview and 90 minutes in two weeks is probably really smart. However, most people don't do that pre-work, Scott. Do you know anybody who really does that pre-work?

SPEAKER_00 3:11

I would love to say even we do it. I would say we do some of it.

Tammy 3:15

We know better.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah.

Tammy 3:17

And we've made some bad hires. We know better, and we have met people and said we know these people really well and we're gonna hire them, and didn't really do our due diligence up front. And every time we have we have not done the work, the pre-work, we screwed ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yep. Right. Yeah, and I think that's true for many organizations. And and part of it is okay, what is that pre-work? And let's talk about that here in a moment. And then getting really diligent about how do you do that pre-work, how do you be really discerning in those scenarios where you have to make decisions about pre-work and then you just do it. Because what's funny, it's what's kind of funny is the pre-work actually isn't that hard.

Tammy 4:05

No, and in fact, this is when we've done these kinds of work before and done the War on Talent kind of series with folks. One of the big things is most organizations make their biggest hiring mistake before they have their first interview. And that biggest hiring mistake is not determining what this individual needs to be able to do in order for that position to be successful. Oftentimes, what we do is, well, we had someone in there before and they looked like Scott and they acted like Scott, and Scott was good at that job. And so Scott's left, and so we're just going to replace and find a new Scott. Well, that is not analyzing what we want that position for. So slow down the bus. What are we trying to accomplish with that position? That is the biggest part of this pre-work.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

And it really is saying, what do I need today? What does that role look like in six or 12 or 18, 24 months? Does that evolve? Or am I hiring for that for that role? And I don't think that role will evolve in the next six, 12, 18, 24 months. And again, I appreciate that some people are going to say, Well, but our world is changing. And how can I look? You're doing your best guess based on what you know today. It may change tomorrow, and that is okay. And so some people will say, Well, gosh, we have so much pre-work to do. I have to make a job description, and then I have to decide is it, you know, is it salary or or or hourly, and then I have to get a pay range, and then I have and I have to, and I have to welcome to a six-month hiring.

Tammy 5:50

You know, Scott, it's so funny you say that because there's an organization that I worked with last year, and um a position um became available. And we, Scott, you and I brought them a candidate, a really highly qualified candidate. And the hiring manager basically came back and said, I can't even talk to this person because I don't have all the paperwork done. Okay, I gotta tell you, that is a crazy answer. And of course, they lost that chance for that candidate and have never really found someone that would be really amazing in that position simply because, oh my gosh, we have to cross every T and dot every I. And Courtney, to go back to that thing, isn't this too fast? Well, guess what? You know what? We don't need a perfect job description. We don't need a comp study. What we need to know is what does this human being need to accomplish in what time frame? And once we have an understanding of what success looks like, what is the work? What do they need to accomplish? What are the goals? What are we trying to achieve? Then we can find the right person.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

I mean, so if you kind of step back, I mean, really, if you think about the pre-work, what are the goals and outcomes of this role? Number one, number two, will that evolve or change much in the next six, 12, 18, 24 months? And then once you have that, now you can come and say, oh, okay. So what knowledge, skills, and abilities do they need? And what are their behavioral alignments to those skills, etc.? And is there any kind of cognitive or other assessment that you want to add in there? And you can do that very quickly. Courtney, how long did it take us to identify those for the intern that you are hiring?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Five minutes, 10 minutes. That's the point.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

And what did you learn in that process?

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Oh, a lot of things. I would say the biggest thing I learned was that I don't need to hire someone exactly like me because they will not do the job I need them to do.

Tammy 8:09

And that's one of the biggest mistakes people make as well. So I said earlier, you know, Scott is moving on. We sometimes try to hire another Scott. Or um, it's not that Scott's moving on, I'm the hiring manager. And, you know, I'm just more comfortable with someone who is a pretty much a lot like I am. And of course, the the issue with that is one, the job may not be well suited for me. And second of all, there's all sorts of bias in that. And that keeps individuals who are not like me from being successful because I look at them and say, oh, they're not like me, so I don't want them around. And that's why we have some of that DEI stuff that's going on, is because we're letting these um biases get in the way of finding someone who could be really successful. But you can't, you can't just go hire someone if you can't define what the work looks like and the kind of skill set and behavioral sets that people have to be able to be successful in that job. Scott, I will tell you, I think there's one more thing in there that maybe you missed. How much time do we let, how much time do we have? How much time can we afford to let someone grow into that position? Because if I need to bring someone in who's already done it, I pay a premium. If I'm going to bring someone into this role where they have the the grace, the time to learn and make mistakes and roll forward, I can bring someone in that doesn't have as much experience and is not going to be as expensive in terms of their salary to begin with. Right. In that spot, we also have to add that to the mix. So that's the that kind of your upfront work. What does success look like? What skills and behavioral sets are they going to need in order to be successful in that? And how much time do we have before they need to contribute, fully contribute? That's the beginning of the pre-work. And by the way, the most important pre-work. Again, job description is not as important. Comp studies are not as important. Those four things I think are critical.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Two pieces that I would add. I love your ad about do we pay for it now or do we pay for it later? Because there is, there is eventually, I believe it gets the same approximate cost. Of course. You develop someone up into that role, or you pay for that, you know, for that skill set out, you know, out of the box, there's still a time, right? Time and effort energy there. Um I think the other piece that that I would add at the end is you also do this every time you hire, even if you're hiring for the same job.

Tammy 11:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

So if you say, Oh, I have this technician, I have this programmer, you need to look and say, okay, I did this pre-work before. Does that pre-work still fit for this role? Because I might have four positions, all the same title, but maybe two of them I want to be more senior. And how I how I go after them is different if it's a more junior or not as much experience. And that, right, those may be different, even though they have the quote same title.

Tammy 11:38

I I agree. And I think that's one of the big mistakes. See, that's why we kind of make the assumption Scott was in that job before, so I just have to hire another Scott without considering that we could look at that job completely differently and consider something else. What does the organization need? And assuming that what they they need what used to be is a poor assumption. And assuming that just because we did this three months ago, it's the same now, that is also another poor assumption. And it doesn't take that long to actually sit down and have this conversation. I think really the hiring manager, right? Maybe someone from human resources that's helping you out with that. This is a conversation we can probably have in about a half an hour. Start to finish. So this is not super time consuming, but knowing what you're looking for ahead of time helps you to not have bias when you are in the interview process itself. And so that's one of the pieces that sometimes I think we forget. If we know what our criteria is, we are looking at the people that we are interviewing against that criteria versus do I like them personally? Am I drawn to them personally? Will we be friends at work? All right, those types of things, because that's not the criteria for the job. And so it allows us to have a little bit more separation once we have a very clear list. In fact, I was telling Courtney today, I said, hey, when you're like in that world where you're thinking someday I want to be married, you don't put together your list of what you're looking for when you're dating someone. You put your list together before you meet anyone. So when you meet them, you go and say, huh, let's look at the criteria. Do they meet it or not? And that allows you to be able to meet much more discerning. The same thing is true when it comes to hiring someone at work. You want to be super discerning, but you need to be discerning in a neutral setting, not in a setting where you've already met people and interacted with them. It's harder to be neutral then.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

And that wraps up this week's episode of the Leadership Line. Feel free to reach out to us in the emails provided in this podcast description box, and we'll see you next week.