Jerks at Work

We've had the term "jerks at work" in every podcast intro to date-- today, we dive into jerks at work, AND how to deal with them. 

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podcast@creativesolutionsgp.com
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Meet your hosts:
Tammy K Rogers
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tammerarogers

Scott Burgmeyer
https://www.linkedin.com/in/burgy

Other Resources:
http://www.creativesolutionsgp.com
http://www.aveeapartners.com
http://chiefoptimizationofficer.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the Leadership Line, a podcast that covers everyday work issues. From dealing with jerks at work to feeling burnt out, Tammy and Scott's experience, along with their different perspectives, help listeners grow, examine realistic options and alternatives, and identify those actionable solutions to the tough issues we face every day at work. As many of our listeners have heard in our intro, we talk about jerks at work, but we're an episode, we're in like the 50s at this point, and we have not talked about how to handle jerks at work. So let's just put someone in a scenario. They are dealing with the absolute worst coworker ever. They're snagged, they don't get along with them at all. How do you handle a jerk at work? Well, we have to deal with that all the time, Courtney.

Tammy 0:46

I mean, we work with Scott, don't we?

SPEAKER_00 0:48

I know.

Tammy 0:50

If you think about the kind of stuff that we would say that is something that other people would say, that's not right. That's jerk-like. What's jerk-like behavior, Scott?

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Ultimately, it's a lack of respect for that person. And it could be from lots and lots of perspectives, right? It could be to the extreme where it's, you know, falls into the legal harassment kind of realm. Or it could be, right? I ignore you, or I don't send you information, or I withhold things so you can't do your work. I'm a Karen and I just complain about everything and nobody wants to be around me. That's how I would categorize it.

Tammy 1:28

I think sometimes what's interesting is that we have people who are jerks at work that don't even know that they're being jerk-like. If you only hang out with your gang and you don't ever open kind of that door and invite other people to hang out with you, that's actually jerk-like because someone who is coming from the outside doesn't feel like they're part of the tribe. I think if you are the kind of person who um has a potty mouth, and I absolutely do, and you're working uh with someone who thinks that that's offensive, right? They could see someone with a potty mouth as being a jerk at work. I think dominating conversations, always having to have things your way, stirring the pot, gossiping. I mean, I think all of those are like jerk-like behaviors that sometimes we don't see that in ourselves, and yet we can be guilty of those behaviors because we're just like kind of being ourselves and hanging out, and we don't recognize that those things actually can cause difficulties for others inside of the organization.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

And it it what it really reminds me of is it's a great book we've done programs on before called The No Asshole Rule.

Tammy 3:00

Love that book, it's one of my favorites.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

And essentially, um I think it's funny because essentially, if you read the book, it says that we are all assholes at some point. The difference is you're a temporary asshole or you're a certified asshole.

Tammy 3:22

That's all right. I love that. I'd forgotten that that's language. That is so right.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

So it's like a temporary is I've had a single, I have a bad day, whatever. We all are there. You know, he starts to talk about you're insulting them, you you in you intimidate, you're, I mean, so I was sarcastic, I used sarcasm and teasing just a little bit ago, which means I was uh, well, apparently everyone says I'm a certified asshole.

Tammy 3:50

However, but you are definitely the temporary.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

I would like to think I'm a temporary. Um but it also gets into, you know, so there's the overt stuff, there's also the covert stuff, where I don't invite you, I exclude you, I treat you less than all of these things that you know. Again, Tammy, to your point, some some of that is purposeful, and some of it is I don't intend to.

Tammy 4:18

And if we take that into the DEI kind of uh realm, right? Microaggressions. Sometimes microaggressions are purposeful, sometimes it's ignorance. Okay. It's still jerk-like behavior. Whether you want to say it's conscious or unconscious, intentional or non-intentional, temporary or certified jerk. Okay. The fact of the matter is it still has the same impact.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Yeah.

Tammy 4:47

And the impact in that is it says it's not safe to be here at work, to be me, the totality of me. Work is a place where I feel like I have to walk on eggshells, or I feel like it's a war zone that I have to fight my way through, and I can't bring me to work because there's a jerk there. And that jerk is going to catch me. Okay, or that jerk is gonna reveal me, or that jerk is gonna make me uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 5:20

And I think what's hard is we're all gonna deal with it at some time. Correct. It would be lovely to say that we wouldn't. And there's a piece that also says, okay, as an individual, if I recognize it, I have a responsibility to adjust and apologize. If I'm not the one being that way, I also believe I have a responsibility that if I see it in others, that I address it. And I think I think companies and organizations and leaders and people do that if it's on those edges. Like it's extreme, it's harassment, it's right. Those, I think those many times get addressed. I also appreciate that there are lawsuits and lots of things that go on where they didn't get addressed. Okay, there's a whole bunch of them that are small and little that don't get addressed, where even if it's being done to me, to me, I see a dual responsibility. I shouldn't be one. And if you're being one to me, I need to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Tammy 6:37

So, Scott, you just said something really, really important. Okay. So let's say between the two of us, you know, um, I feel like you are being a jerk to me. And I don't say anything. Yeah, okay. So I don't say anything to you, and I don't say anything to anybody else, and I just kind of let it go. And then I see it a little bit later again, and just it's the second, it's the second check mark, right? And I don't say anything to you, and I really don't say anything to anybody else. And then, you know, it continues, and eventually I get resentful. Okay. Now, you and I, we have a problem in the relationship because of course I haven't said anything to you, and I'm starting to now, you know, like maybe be a little passive aggressive back to you, but in this space, or like even walk out of it, but in this space, you and I don't have a good relationship. But if it continues, then what I'm gonna do, Scott, is I'm actually gonna go tell somebody else. Okay. Now, if I go tell Courtney, Courtney as a peer of mine, I am gonna start creating a faction. Courtney, Scott did this. Courtney, Scott did this. You're right. He is a jerk, he shouldn't do that. And now it's two against one, and we start this like us versus them. Or if it's not a peer and I take it to a superior. So let's say I take it to my boss, or let's say I take it to human resources and I say Scott is doing fill in the blank. Now, if I use certain words a little bit stronger than jerk, if I say like Scott is bullying me, Scott is um treating me differently, Scott is creating a hostile work environment. What has just happened is Scott, you and I can't work it out anymore because I have escalated it and I've made it formal. And now an organization, a manager doesn't have the ability to say, hey, let's get together and talk this through. We formalized it, and in that formal process, Scott and I, you and I are not going to probably resolve our relationship. We put someone else in the middle of it, and we have taken this thing that now we could have resolved if I had just come to you and said, Scott, what you're doing is driving me crazy. This is how it feels like to me. Can we talk about how we can do this differently? And when we don't handle it early, if we end up getting resentful and formalizing it, we've now created this really weird thing in the organization that didn't need to be there. If I just talked to you about it.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Yeah, and I think it's hard because I think people are like, well, no, I'm supposed to report it. And and I do, I do think that's hard because it's like, well, no, we we do want to report. We also, and it's this, I think it's this fine line. It's like, I don't want to report because I don't, I don't, right, I don't want it to cry wolf, and I don't want it to create this faction and this big rift and all these things. I don't want to under, right? And have it like put lots of people at risk, you know, from a from a legal perspective. And it to me, it really is about are you addressing it early?

Tammy 10:22

See, that's the point, Scott. If I wait three or four times, in my mind, each time it's like adding up. So the first one, you know, I responded and it was just a little kind of a little spark, right? But every time I don't address it, it builds that fire. So it's bigger and bigger. And my feelings, my emotion around it, and how I fill in the blank, how I how I am reading why you're doing it gets bigger and badder in my mind because we all kind of jump to conclusions, these logic leaps, right? So the first time you do it, it's like, ah, he was just having a bad day. By the fifth time you do it, it's like, no, he is an asshole. And he is doing it because and fill in the blank and all this stuff. If I come to you the very first time and say, Scott, when you said that, I interpreted it as this, and I don't know if that's what you intended. Can we talk about it? Notice I didn't say you did this and you did this, and you no, when this happened, this is how I felt, and this is how I interpret it. Can we discuss that? In that spot, you can go, I was a jerk that day. And Tammy, I have to be honest with you, I purposely goaded you because I was having a bad day, and I'm sorry. I can then go, okay, I've had bad days too. I okay, let's just not have it continue to happen, right? Or you might say, God, I didn't even know that. I mean, that was not my intention at all, and I didn't know that that's how it landed with you. Um, so I have to think about how I can modify my behavior in the future because I don't want you to feel that way. But in both cases, we've talked about it.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

And there's a piece of if you're being the one talked to, you have to think about it and say what's right about what they're saying versus the defensive, no, I didn't, I'm pretty sure I didn't do that. Oh, you're too sensitive. Oh, I mean a baby, right? All you're doing is, and it is there, there's a piece of self-reflection and looking yourself in the mirror and saying, Did I do that?

Tammy 12:31

Was I a jerk? And and and by the way, what's really cool about this is to recognize to go back to you know the no-asshole rule. We are all jerks sometime. That's that temporary jerk. You had a bad day, something hit you in the wrong way, you literally are rushing from one place to another because you feel really overwhelmed that day. We are all gonna be jerks sometime. And and actually recognizing that when people come to you and asking yourself this question, okay, this is how they experienced it. I can accept that I can be a temporary jerk. Now ask yourself the question is there a pattern of behavior? Do I do this a lot? Yeah. And it's that second question for me that helps you to start see things that are your blind spots. The places where you might be a certified jerk because you didn't recognize that that pattern of behavior was jerk-like until someone brought it to your attention. The temporary, yeah, you just have to say you're sorry and you have to work at not having that be frequent all the time. The certified, you got some work to do.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

And that wraps up this week's episode of the leadership line. As always, feel free to reach out to us in the emails provided in the podcast description box, or reach out to us on LinkedIn also in our podcast description box. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next week.